Have your say about whether overseas burmese should take up another citizenship!
Let's discuss and share with us how u feel about it in this blog.
Feel free to voice out ur view in the comments.
We intend to use it for our upcoming issue 8, Oct 2006.
Editors
Thanlwin Ainmat
July 24, 2006
Discussion on whether overseas burmese should take up another citizenship
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40 comments:
I think it is an interesting topic. Everyone has their own rights. So I don’t want to argue about this but pls support the democracy and freedom in Burma. Whoever you are or wherever you are.
It totally depends on the situation. Do you know there are many stateless people around because they are doing the RIGHT things? It will be different if Burma is free.
I think some country accept the dual citizen. No matter what we should mantain our culture language and tradition.We can change the citzen but can't change the native.
Mg Kaung Sae
Hmm... that's a hot issue nowaday. Yeah.before discuss should or should not, want to talk about why oversea myanmar change their citizenship..In singapore, most of the myanmar who changed their citizenship to singaporean don't want to pay for the dualtax.. and want to get some offer from Singapore government..In US some of the myanmar apply for the refugee or assylum..and then they try to get UScitizen ship.. ha ha.. some of them are not really doing for Democracy movement.They are doing this for their own families. Yeah.. everybody has their own choice. I accept that it's totally depend on the our country political situation, but I feel like it's running from the problem and after changing the citizenship you won't be concern about our country's problem..
First of All, we need to think for our generation. As for me, I want my childs to grow-old with Myanmar Culture and Myanmar's spirit(There r so many thing to explain about that). I also want my child to grow-old with the Dhamma of Buddha. And I want my child to b the Buddhist. That is why I don't want to b other citizenship.
I ever asked myself this question many times. People around me has been taken foreign citizenship. Are they doing the right thing? Depend! Some said "our country has no future and better take other citizenship". Some said "they do not want to pay double tax and do not want to deal with uncivilized servant from Burmese Embassy". Some said "they just do not want to go back Burma". But whatever is it, this is their personal decision and I have no right to say RIGHT or WRONG. As long as love your country, love your people and ready to contribute something good for country, it will be fine. But for me, so far I am not even thinking to take foreign citizenship although I have been living abroad for (15) years. I still have a dream for Burma!! I still have a hope for Burma!!
Yes, I agree with Ko Nay Myo and Ko Aye. I never even think of that b4.
Perhaps many people will say "depend!" Yes, it always depends on many situations, from personal to country. Basically (roughly saying), there are two major kinds of people in this issue.
First it's about 'refugee' by any cause (political/religion/ethinic). As you all know, we have thousands of IDP (internally displaced person) in our country and many more in camps along border areas. They mostly have no hope, no life, no attachment to the land and they are forced to leave. So it's thier own right to choose citizenship which can secure more, when they got to third world nations.
Secondly, there are so-called middle-class/educated individuals. Most of them left the country legally. Most of them achieved basic technical education in overseas and started to work so they got 2nd level citizenship, usually around asian region. Most people [99/100%] who gained oversea education choose not to go back. And by human nature, we always look for higher ground. However, those people still got a chance to figure out when it comes to decide for citizenship.
One thing to be aware of, "If we let it be when things are down in choas, they will forever be. And we can never run away, even though we merely changed places and clothes".
This is only basic thought. Lets see what others think and we'll come back to discus more later. Keep on talking!
hello friends, everybody said if the political situation of myanmar is good,and it's depend on the situation. I want to ask you guys why we are waiting for the situation. If we love our own county,we love our people, and we love the truth, why we don't make the movement.(I don't mean to shout from outside of the country)I beleive that we can make the situation that we want.. so... be united and do something for our country, follow the leaders.. be ready for that situation..after you have read all that I mentioned above, you may guess.. what I choose... I, ayugyi, prefer to die rather than run away..
For benefit, I think those countries allow to hold dual is fine. But, like Sin, is too risky. Before you go ahead and apply citizen, singaporens how they suffer when they lose their job during Asia economic crisis, singaporeans how they worry about retirement, pls listen carefully and decide. Such a small country, Lee Sing Loong made one big wrong decision is enough for bye bye everything. I think coming not long...
On the other side, don't you think that it is too much to pay for small amount of benefit by giving up your own country citizenship, religion, curlture, relatives, friends, Burma Land, mountains, Ayerwaddy, Chindwin, Bagan, unforgettable childhood memories,....
My children growing up in Sin losing at least 25% of Burmeseship already...If I were to convert to Singapore citizen, definitely they will have not more than 25% of Burmeseship.
Sorry, I will never do that.
But, one exception, one day I believe that I can do something for my country from Singapore, I might need to convert to Sin citizen first... This is scarifice...
Appreciated the comments. Anyway, that're your calls. "Depend" is the only word we ended up whenever we talk about changing Citizenship.
If you "can" live your life at the foreign countries by sticking Burmese Citizenship, Congrads.
But, believe me, "life is not a fairy tale" for everybody.
Let me say that "Changing Citizenship is not changing attitudes and behaviors."
Not all children born under foreign citizenship will be spoilt, but they grow old with "Myanmar Culture and Myanmar Spirit". They grow old with respect to Buddha, Dhamma, and Sanga.
So what I wanna say is - In order for your children to grow old as a humble Buddhists, it doesn't depend on the citizenship, it just depends on the guardianship of the parents.
Let me emphasize the word again:
"Depend"
Forget to say this to some of you =>
"Never say never"
because you never know what is going to happen to you. :)
Just teasing.
"We never know what is going to happen to us" May be.. but it's base on how strong your desire is... most of the people just follow the flow...I read about U Thant.. his adopted son asked him to be a US citizen. U Thant was very angry and answered his adopted son that we were staying abroad because of our works,but oneday we would go back our homeland, Myanmar.Unfortunaetly, he didn't have chance to go back Homeland alive.You may say the situation in Myanmar is not as U Thant's time. There are alot problem nowaday. This stupid brainless Government is the main problem.Yeah we accept that, right?
I want to tell all of you guys,if the people are strong, the government can not be stand.. only one thing we need to do is " be united and fight for the truth".Oneday we can make our victory. " The person who has strong desire never say that he don't know his future, because he try to make his future".
We might partially agree with Alvin's comment # 12 about 'guardianship'. However, that 'guardianship' can't fully apply to most people in overseas due to the lifestyle, environments and mostly those guardians self. It's sad to see that about 90% of 2nd/3rd generations whose settled down in overseas are apperantly losing Burmeseness along with their citizenship. And for those who forgot their own roots, they eventually become stateless aliens.
Here's just another piece of thought. For Burmese who gave up their native citizenship for better place and work life, can you really stay away from Burma afterall? There are many people sending back money. Sponsoring their relatives. Perhaps visiting back sometimes. Even doing business with. As long as there're still many kind of attachments, can you really run away by yourselves? Ask yourself, are you really free? Just wondering...
btw anyone knows which country can take dual citizenship?
Good topic to discuss! Well, In Singapore, more and more SPR, (Myanmar, Singapore Permanent Residence) are getting Singapore Citizenship. Why? Their main reason is dual tax even though there are so many way to b unpaid the tax to Myanmar Government (May b they don’t know). Another reason is as Singaporean, they do not need to apply Visa for most of the country. So they are thinking to get Singapore Citizenship 1st and then they want to migrant to another country. (That’s totally stupid idea, it’s just my point of view) As Singaporean they can only go to other countries without Visa. That’s all! I don’t think Singaporean can get more benefit to get a good job or safe/secure life in other countries. The last and most unacceptable reason is they scare to loose PR one day. OK! Do they know SPR is for life time? And only re-entry permit needs to renew. Normally Singapore Government gives 5yrs 1st, follow by 10yrs for these re-entry permit. But I believe some of them don’t know about it. For those who don’t even know
Good topic to discuss! Well, In Singapore, more and more SPR, (Myanmar, Singapore Permanent Residence) are getting Singapore Citizenship. Why? Their main reason is dual tax even though there are so many way to be unpaid the tax to Myanmar Government (May b they don’t know). Another reason is as Singaporean, they do not need to apply Visa for most of the country. So they are thinking to get Singapore Citizenship 1st and then they want to migrant to another country. They believe they can't get Visa as SPR, Myanmar Citizen (That’s totally stupid idea, it’s just my point of view).
As Singaporean they can only go to other countries without Visa. That’s all! I don’t think Singaporean can get more benefit to get a good job or safe/secure life in other countries. The last and most unacceptable reason is they scare to loose PR one day. OK! Do they know SPR is for life time? And only re-entry permit needs to renew. Normally Singapore Government gives 5yrs 1st, follow by 10yrs for these re-entry permit. But I believe some of them don’t know about it. For those who don’t even know what is going on and just follow what others people do, they better take others citizenship. They will be useless when they come back to Myanmar also. Pls advise about US and other countries. Anyway thank for reading my discussion. I may take others citizenship, but not Singapore.
If all the peolple ran away from that country, you all would see Myanmar as a abandon country.
hmm... when I am thinking that I feel pain in my heart.Have you ever imagine about that?
Run away from problem is not a good solution. We live abroad due to some reasons. Of course, everybody want to lead convenient life. But sametime, everybody must know responsibilities in their life. If everybody start thinking "me & my family only", I'm very sad for our country. I know that the road toward prosper and freedom Burma is rough and it may take long long time. But I still have faith in our country future.
You should take other citizenship if you wanted to but my suggestion is try to take citizenship on those countries that allow you dual citizenship. So you no need to release your own beloved country citizen. When you travel around the world, use your foreign citizen; only use your own Myanmar passport when you visit to your beloved mother land.
Like Ko Aye, I'm also asking my self this question whether I should or should not apply Singapore Citizen since I am living here for 8 Years already. The main problem is Singapore is not allowed to hold dual citizen. Most of my friends are Singaporean already. They urged me to apply. The main thing to make me hesitate is I love my country and my people so much. And I wanted to go back to my mother land when I grow old. Those Myanmar Singaporean friends told me that there are many ways to go back to mother land as a Myanmar citizen but………
I just came back from Myanmar and I saw that most individual in Myanmar lost their moral and I also saw that they don't have professional ethic. It is not because of they are struggling for their survival. So I am afraid that people moral in Myanmar will going to spoil in near future. If our country will go on like this, it is big blow to our younger generation….
As most of the overseas Burmese will not go back to Burma in near future, it is reasonable for them to change over citizenship and enjoy their rights in their adopted land.
yes mr anonymous, u said we should take dual citizenship, but i dont know which country give dual citizen? can anyone tell me?
Hi all, it's just sharing a thought and not to intend to offence anybody. I think that taking foreign's citizenship or staying as a myanmar citizinship is not so much important. Here, I am referring to those who come out of the country for job or to study some education. I don't know much about the poeple coming out of the country due to political, Human right or other reasons such as force leaving and etc. As a singapore PR (SPR), I notice that there are a few reasons SPR converted to singapore citizenship : to avoid paying taxes and oppotunity to visit to other countries (US), and to get some relief in terms of buying house to settle down in Singapore. I, myself also notice taht Singapore's future is not very sure for the next ten to twenty years. As one member discussed on the early block, if Lee Sein Loon makes one wrong step, the future of Singpore will be gone. Some people want to persue their dreams like to study in US. So, they think there might have a chance if they are singaporean. Well, its up to the individual, I think. Some says yes! we must keep burmese citizenship. For me, I am not against both sides of ideas. Serving the nation! Contribution to our Myanmar's Society! There are many ways to do all these things. Different people do in different styles and different amount because they have different belief systems. Some, even do not bother. Some think contribution means to participate, be ready and support all movements to democracy. Some think, Well! after democracy, there will be a lot of professionals needed. Many people emphasize to changing politic. After politic is changed, how will we do transforming our country from being very poor to the developed country. What kinds of people do we need after political changed? One thing very sure is that, this time we must not let the people with no bran to handle our country
's development process after the political situation is changed. Definitely, we do not need second time of our ruling leaders after our independence. I am not blamed if you are in either side because both are important for our country's development process. We need heros who sacrifies to change our country's politic. Yes, we also need people to develop our country. I know that I am not the first type because I have my dreams and I am persuing to achieve my dreams. I am still thinking another thought which is : Do we really need to be a myanmar citizen in order to contribute to the mother land? Some people say "yes" and some "no". Bill Gate contributed a lot to India. So, I think if you are that kind of man, who has a sense of contribution to human society, serving our nation need not really to be in the burmese citizenship. We still can contribute in many ways. A small step can start to provide educational support to those very poor students from Burma, etc. It really depends on how you see yourself and how to position yourselves to serving our country. Loving the country, race and culture: Yes I love that too. One strange thing is I cant find the people with burmese hearts inside Burma anymore when I go back after staying aborad for six years. Please dont think me wrong. I was grown up with " Quarter's parent : Yut Mi Yut Fa, Kar La tar Kaung, Hi Yi Aw Tat Pa Ta Ya, Bya Ma So Ta Yar 4 per, Lu Nge Kyint Wut : Kyee tu ko Yo tay, Ywe Tu ko lay sar, Nge tu ko ta nar Nyar Tar". I really think it's up to the individual whether they should maintain or abondon burmese citizenship. However, I am still holding my citizenship until now.
Well, a lot of people still not give up Myanmar citizenship(in this blog). At the same time so many ppls getting other citizenships(in real world). Is that mean for those getting other citizenship dont know this blog? or they feel guilty? Come on! Pls discuss something! Atleast we will have chance to know your feelings. All the best.
I love myanmar from the bottom of my heart. But i have no choice.
MyanmarLay said...
Good topic to discuss! Well, In Singapore, more and more SPR, (Myanmar, Singapore Permanent Residence) are getting Singapore Citizenship. Why? Their main reason is dual tax even though there are so many way to b unpaid the tax to Myanmar Government (May b they don’t know). Another reason is as Singaporean, they do not need to apply Visa for most of the country. So they are thinking to get Singapore Citizenship 1st and then they want to migrant to another country. (That’s totally stupid idea, it’s just my point of view) As Singaporean they can only go to other countries without Visa. That’s all! I don’t think Singaporean can get more benefit to get a good job or safe/secure life in other countries. The last and most unacceptable reason is they scare to loose PR one day. OK! Do they know SPR is for life time? And only re-entry permit needs to renew. Normally Singapore Government gives 5yrs 1st, follow by 10yrs for these re-entry permit. But I believe some of them don’t know about it. For those who don’t even know
8/06/2006 06:13:27 PM
MyanmarLay said...
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-> Can share some ways to b unpaid the dual tax to Myanmar Government?Currently, I use my part-time cost to pay half.
ayugyi said...
hello friends, everybody said if the political situation of myanmar is good,and it's depend on the situation. I want to ask you guys why we are waiting for the situation. If we love our own county,we love our people, and we love the truth, why we don't make the movement.(I don't mean to shout from outside of the country)I beleive that we can make the situation that we want.. so... be united and do something for our country, follow the leaders.. be ready for that situation..after you have read all that I mentioned above, you may guess.. what I choose... I, ayugyi, prefer to die rather than run away..
7/31/2006 11:35:46 PM
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Not run away. At first, we have to migrant ourselves to be ready in anytime.When our country need us,we are ready to go back with plently of knowledge,education,wealth and so on.Why we sit in dark and waste our time for waiting.That's why at most we can do in shout from outside.If shout inside,....
Everybody is right in own way of thinking. But I suggest everybody must be ready to contribute when time come. Please contribute whatever you can. Do love your country! Do love your people! We must rebuild our country. We must rebuild our integrity and pride!
I never want to be another citizenship even if I live in outside of Burma. But I want to visit sometime and it's not easy to pay dueltaxes. So, what choice that I have!
Mai, USA
Once you were born in a country, you belong to it. You must embrace everything,whether good or bad, about it. My opinion is that for those who wanna play an active and leading role in Burma's future, they should remain as Burmese citizens. But, the bottom line is that you must love your country and do something good and positive for your country whether you changed your citizenship or remain as Burmese. At present, Burma is not a good place to live. But, we shouldn't stop our thinking at this point. We must think how to change the situation, how to help the poor and needy in Burma,and how to contribute for the betterment of Burmese citizens(pls exclude the evil military junta and their circles here). Loving one's country is not about holding its passport. It is about something in your mind and heart.
Share some way to unpaid tax?"thi thu baw sar, ma thi thu kyaw thwar par". okie i will tell u. but not here. anyone who want to to know, post email address in this blog. i will send u all. but anything happen is in your own risk. FYI: i never pay Tax for more than three year and i goin back every year too.
i will have to reply instead of ayugyi since he never reply. ok mr anonymous, we are talking about citizenship. we are not talking about whether myanmar should go oversea. u said u hav to migrant 1st and why sit in dark and waste time for waitin. that's mean u will take other citizenship and the ppl who never take other citizenship are sittin in the dark? if i m not wrong, most of the country give green card or PR b4 they give citizenship. frankly speaking i m singapore PR and as singapore PR i can do a lot in this country and i dont think i am not sitting in the dark.u said "When our country need us,we are ready to go back with plently of knowledge, education,wealth and so on"do you know that our country need us rite now? if you really want, you can do now(here i would like to borrow you word, DONT WASTE YOUR TIME BY WAITING). a lot of ppl doing something likes donate for education, health etc....if you want to know how. you can post your email address here and i can tell you detail. thankz for reading
MyanmarLay said...
i will have to reply instead of ayugyi since he never reply. ok mr anonymous, we are talking about citizenship. we are not talking about whether myanmar should go oversea. u said u hav to migrant 1st and why sit in dark and waste time for waitin. that's mean u will take other citizenship and the ppl who never take other citizenship are sittin in the dark? if i m not wrong, most of the country give green card or PR b4 they give citizenship. frankly speaking i m singapore PR and as singapore PR i can do a lot in this country and i dont think i am not sitting in the dark.u said "When our country need us,we are ready to go back with plently of knowledge, education,wealth and so on"do you know that our country need us rite now? if you really want, you can do now(here i would like to borrow you word, DONT WASTE YOUR TIME BY WAITING). a lot of ppl doing something likes donate for education, health etc....if you want to know how. you can post your email address here and i can tell you detail. thankz for reading
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Hey , Dear
You misunderstand my post.I figure out Ayugyi's word "prefer to die rather than run away".The means, he rather like to die in Myanmar than going to aboard.He accuse us(people who go to aboard)as run away persons from country.That's why I reply him about the reason why we go out of country and how we think in our mind.Never say "ppl who never take other citizenship are sittin in the dark".I myself are singapore PR for more than 3years.You are remainding Myanmar citizen without paying dual tax.I paying dual tax for many years and remaining Myanmar citizen. If say like child, I can say, I love my country more than u.huhhhhhmmm!
pyi sitt naing said...
Once you were born in a country, you belong to it. You must embrace everything,whether good or bad, about it. My opinion is that for those who wanna play an active and leading role in Burma's future, they should remain as Burmese citizens. But, the bottom line is that you must love your country and do something good and positive for your country whether you changed your citizenship or remain as Burmese. At present, Burma is not a good place to live. But, we shouldn't stop our thinking at this point. We must think how to change the situation, how to help the poor and needy in Burma,and how to contribute for the betterment of Burmese citizens(pls exclude the evil military junta and their circles here). Loving one's country is not about holding its passport. It is about something in your mind and heart.
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Very good and very reasonable post.Absolutely correct.
"Loving one's country is not about holding its passport. It is about something in your mind and heart".
with regards;
kha yay phyu
Alvin said...
Appreciated the comments. Anyway, that're your calls. "Depend" is the only word we ended up whenever we talk about changing Citizenship.
If you "can" live your life at the foreign countries by sticking Burmese Citizenship, Congrads.
But, believe me, "life is not a fairy tale" for everybody.
Let me say that "Changing Citizenship is not changing attitudes and behaviors."
Not all children born under foreign citizenship will be spoilt, but they grow old with "Myanmar Culture and Myanmar Spirit". They grow old with respect to Buddha, Dhamma, and Sanga.
So what I wanna say is - In order for your children to grow old as a humble Buddhists, it doesn't depend on the citizenship, it just depends on the guardianship of the parents.
Let me emphasize the word again:
"Depend"
----------------
Yes. Different people have different options.As Alvin say;
life is not a fairy tale for everybody.They(who changed citizenship)may have hidden difficulties.Example....
Pls dnt think, if you can donate 5dollars, other people also must/can donate 5dollars.Their income may be less.They may have many family members.This is just an example.
So.... do what you can do.Try not to blame who can't do.
FYI....I am holding Myanmar citizen and S'pore PR.
With best regards;
kha yay phyu
(If not happy, can call below no# for 24hrs to discuss)
999
ha! Just kidding. :)
Oh.. It's been a while that I didn't visit to Than Lwin blog. A lot of people are participating in this topic. Quite interesting topic and there is no right or wrong answer.
I found that "depend" word is used frequently. Some people still strongly don't accept that word and some agree with it. Ammm ?
I have no offense to anyone. All I want to say is:
- No matter where you stand and believe doesn't matter. What matter is what you are doing.
- Has anyone who shout for doing something ever done something for country before?
- Will people who are only interested about own family matter do something for country when country need them?
- Will people who said they are ready for country really be reacheable when country need them?
A real decision can be made when country call for help. It really doesn't matter where you are, what you are and who you are.
ACTION SPEAKS LOUNDER THAN WORDS.
Hi,
Some people say that they do not want their children to become Singaporeans. But let's take a different perspective from a child point of view who will be born ,educated and grown up in Singapore, how much attachment they will have about Burma even if the parents enforce them to be Burmese. Another thought, why should they become second class in the land they were born while their friends with whom they played with are first class Singaporean Citizens. Is it fair to make them take the risk of obstructing their progress in the future? It happened in our homeland. Many people with foreign descent are restricted in education, employment, travel and most importantly the right of citizenship etc. Shall we let our children take the risk of suffering from the same scenario?
It is a very interesting issue.
As far as I am concern, I think this issue takes a very broad generalization.
Among many, some are in abroad due to their own reasons, but others due to other reasons. Whatever reason they are in foreign countries for, in fact, it doesn't matter much whether they should take up another citizenship or not. But what matters is that they observe what the country they are in requires; they practice what they are supposed to (Yawma yauh yin, Yaw ma lu kyinh.); they follow what the Golden rule says:-
'Do to others what you want them do to you' and 'Do not do to others what you do not want them do to you'. (Irrawaddy7 already mentioned on this by giving instance about Bill Gate.)
Growing old with "Myanmar Culture and Myanmar Spirit" (respecting to Buddha, Dhamma, and Sanga) is good and it is all Myanmar citizens are supposed to do.
But what if somebody asks if they (the Myanmar Culture and Myanmar Spirit) are the best of all and to name 100 persons of Myanmar people who stood out according to (the Myanmar Culture and Myanmar Spirit)?
In short, taking up another citizenship does not much matter, in my opinion, as long as they truly love their mother land.
So,
Take another citizenship if you want to but remember you are still a Burmese and it is your obligation to have Myanmar Spirit.
Do not take another citizenship if you do not want to but remember you are still a Burmese and it is your obligation to have Myanmar Spirit.
May be you take another citizenship because of some difficult situations.May be you want to take another citizenship to get a better life. May be you want to take another citizenship to marry to another nationatility whatever the reason is but the main thing is not to forget You are MYANMAR. Even you are another citizenship but you still are myanmar ..Your origin is in myanmar..Your blood is myanmar blood.You can't change that truth.If we have no choice in difficult situation you can take that kinda thing but please remember there are many people who left in myanmar worse than you and they are still need to get help from you. You are myanmar and your duty is to love and care your nationality. Please come back to myanmar one day..Whatever it takes..It's proud to be Myanmar. We are not poor,we are not untalented people.We have ability and talent but only need to get polished. If you have enough fun in other country why don't you just come back and help who are less fortunate than you rather than stay in that country forever and live your well being life.
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